Curse

Xenomortis · Jan 01, 2011, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

You should have at a minimum 72 energy in your max swap. If you can burn through more than 72 energy while maintaining UA in order to keep prots up, bravo.

It begs the question; why are you having to swap to your high-set?

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

UA inhibits your energy regen, which thereby inhibits your ability to prot.

Although it's more to do with your spec and skill selection.
UA boosts heals, if it didn't do that nobody would care about it. If you bring it, it means you have a single target heal, which means you've specced into Healing Prayers, but since your focus is Prot, you probably don't have Heal Party (which only really works well with Healer's Boon).
In effect, you're using two skills to get a weaker Word of Healing and have gained nothing on the attribute point front. You get a tasty res - so what?

reaper with no name · Jan 02, 2011, 04:28 AM // 04:28

I was under the impression that people took UA for party heals and rezzing, not single target heals.

Xenomortis · Jan 02, 2011, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

I was under the impression that people took UA for party heals and rezzing, not single target heals.

Well, yes. I was responding quite specifically to this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

UA inhibits your energy regen, which thereby inhibits your ability to prot.

Did you not notice? The quote was pretty clear.

If you're using it to power party heals then you're not competing against any prot bar or hybrid - you're competing against Healer's Boon bars.

Spazzer · Jan 05, 2011, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

It begs the question; why are you having to swap to your high-set?

Indeed.

I personally haven't had any issues with it, but there are people in this thread who can't handle it.

Decollete · Jan 06, 2011, 09:30 AM // 09:30

I like how I can be lazy with UA. When someone is close to dying, I can just do nothing and let UA do the job.

No worries about DP, assuming he's not Johnny Assassin, Diving Dervish or Frontline Fire Elly, he'll be clean in no time. In bad cases of DP though, someone's bound to use some candy. I might even use mine because I have several, and I am still working on the sweet tooth title (compare that to how many people will bring/use a resurrection scroll, much less a resurrection skill in a pub).

Most missions are easy enough that any elite on your build will do (I am sure many of you have even gone solo monk before. When that other monk drops/leaves and your team decides to push things through, or when the party leader was just itching to go.). With UA, if things are going well, despite instant-res seeing no play, it doesn't matter. On the other hand, when you've got suicider partymates, no matter which elite I bring, they're still probably bound to die anyway. At least with UA, resurrecting them is lots easier (short cast time, brings corpse to your position, doesn't drain your energy).

No hassle of getting called "newb monk no res" despite knowing better because you always have one. It takes more effort to educate someone you'll never be playing again than just chucking a res on your build.

You don't have to take the time to look at everyone else's build to make sure someone else has res because you are too stubborn with your awesome highly efficient build which might flake when everyone else aren't up to par (read: pub).

The only time I change out of UA is when
- I feel like it, and not being particularly lazy.
- Someone else is already UA (--- and even then, sometimes I just fake changing my build. Yes, too lazy to even bring up the menu. Although you'll never know if that other UA monk will go Leeroy on your team that you have to use UA on him)

My monking point of view are from pub or h&h hard mode zaishen quests/bounties and vanquishing.

Spazzer · Jan 07, 2011, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Gift of health is better than D-kiss unless you have ER or something to let enchantments fly around. Gift heals for 105 for 10 healing, which means you need a few enchantments for d-kiss to do better at the same attribute rank.

DKiss is a full 1 second cast while Gift, Dismiss, and WoH are 3/4 second cast. Therefore I didn't include it in this comparison:

On a UA bar with 13 df/12 pp/9 hp, your Gift will heal for 190 and your Dismiss will heal for 139.

On a WoH bar with 10 df/10 pp/14 hp, your WoH will heal for 126 (235) and your Dismiss will heal for 87.

LifeInfusion · Jan 08, 2011, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Close to 4 months later from OP

First bar I run:
14 DF (16 with headgear swap)
12 Heal (can swap to 13 Heal by headgear swap if DH/HD aren't used very much)
7 Prot

Divine Healing (89, 103 if you stay in superior)
Heaven's Delight (89, 103 if you stay in superior)
Dwayna's Kiss (45+83+51 per hex/enchant ; 42+88+52 per hex/enchant if you swap to 13 Healing)
Patient Spirit (166+45; 176+42 with 13 heal swap)
Prot Spirit/SoA when with ER ele
Seed of Life
Cure Hex (45+166; 42+176 with 13 heal swap)
UA

I run prot hybrid when other monk uses Healer's Boon or if there's no ST/Imba:
14 DF (16 on headgear swap)
10 Heal
10 Prot

Divine Healing = 89 (103 if you stay in 16 DF)
Heaven's Delight = 89 (103 if you stay in 16 DF)
Gift of Health = 165+45
Dismiss Condition=90+45
Prot Spirit
Seed of Life = 28/hit
Deny Hexes/Shield of Absorption
UA (+63%, +57% if no head swap)

Pure party healer, with spot condition removal and hex stack removal. I prefer Gift of Health (see October post: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/g...t10454311.html).

If I'm running all Healing because there's an ST:
First bar I run:
14 DF (16 with headgear swap)
13 Heal (can swap to 14 Heal by headgear swap if DH/HD aren't used very much)
3+1 Prot

Divine Healing (89, 103 if you stay in superior)
Heaven's Delight (89, 103 if you stay in superior)
Dwayna's Kiss (45+88+52 per hex/enchant, 42+93+54 per hex/enchant if you swap to 14 Healing)
Patient Spirit (45+176, 42+186 w/ heal headpiece)
Condition removal (Dismiss/Mend ailment/draw conditions/etc.) or Selfless Spirit
Seed of Life
Cure Hex (45+176, 42+186 w/ heal headpiece)
UA (1.63x)

Also toyed with Healing Burst, which is a stronger skill when paired with a UA monk :
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...7&postcount=95

Spazzer · Jan 11, 2011, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Is there something significant about 10 prot that I don't know about?

Klance · Jan 11, 2011, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Extra second on shield of absorption, which if used correctly is one more second of the target taking zero damage.

Spazzer · Jan 11, 2011, 10:20 AM // 10:20

I use shielding hands instead, so I wasn't aware.

Since I normally bring Aegis, my pp cutoffs are generally 9 and 12.

qazwersder · Jan 12, 2011, 01:29 PM // 13:29

It annoys me so much how pugs ask for hb/ua monks and then proceed to bring no addition prot.

I dislike them both (UA moreso). And its maybe not their fault. Its just they promote such a bad playstyle in the pug meta.

I have no problem with UA/HB monking when theres an imba in the group, or an ER Prot or just some kind of damage mitigation. But pugs just dont realise that these builds need this. The party heals cant withstand the pressure when the group has no clue how to agro or call targets.

Admittedly neither can a WoH hybrid.

But i get the feeling that if there wasnt an insta rez button people would understand that surviving isnt just the monks job. Help them out, bring wards, bring weakness, bring blinds, bring daze, interupts, shut downs, hexes. If you are going to bring a tank, then bring one that understands how agro works, and make sure the rest of the party do too.

Maybe thats my point, its not UA's fault, its the imbagon's fault.

However, I still dont like it.

Whilst pugging the ZM yesterday, one of the group pointed out theres a lot of conditions in SoO. Looking at the other monks bar (We we re UA/HB as requested) I pointed out that he had no condtion removal. His reply was, "its ok, i'll just outheal it."

We didnt last too long.

Apparently that turned out more rantish than I expected. Sorry.

LifeInfusion · Jan 12, 2011, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Hahahaha. HB sucks badly in SoO. The only time I run HB is with massive amounts of damage mitigation (ST rit, Imba), a UA (for mimicry), and a cleaner (foul feast,draw conditions,etc) for conditions and where there is arcane conundrum/migraine hex spam that can't be dealt with.

RC prot + UA backline for SoO. Run prot spirit, SoA, Aegis on RC, seed on both. Mimicry UA, 3-4 copies of Divine healing = awesome. RC healing for 150-300 is hilarious since there's usually at least 3 conditions, sometimes 6 or 7. I pulled a 670+DF or something before.

WoH hybrid is outdated by the buff to Healing burst. 140-150 heal + 30-40ish for everyone in earshot is better than 94 with 203 <50%. It's especially better (than WoH or HB) in SoO where partywide degen (pressure) happens which means you overheal most of the time if you spam a +108 (HB) or +170ish (UA+HB) heal.

maxxfury · Jan 12, 2011, 02:46 PM // 14:46

For full size parties, from my limited game time post buff... Hburst does indeed trump Woh...

Tho for 4 man parties, for me, the jury is still out...the need for party healing is very low on my list and the little boost is nice.... will see after some more time in small areas

LifeInfusion · Jan 12, 2011, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Well using Burst on recharge is basically 4-5 partywide regen (3.2*DF rank)/4seconds*(1regen/2HP)=(0.4*DF) Regen

So with 8DF = 3 regen, which is the same as keeping mending refrain (sucky motivation) or Recuperation (ew) on everyone. Contrary to its description, it heals minions, not just party members.

At 10 DF = 4 regen and 13DF = 5 regen ; 15DF for 6 regen. Note that unlike mending refrain and other crap, this "regen" stacks like Spirit Light weapon.

Due to rounding, you want to hit DF breakpoints of 13 or 8. At 13DF, +42 every 4 seconds is 5.25 regen and at 8DF, +26 every 4 seconds is 3.25 regen.

see http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...7&postcount=95

maxxfury · Jan 12, 2011, 03:26 PM // 15:26

the numbers are nice ty :P

But im not sure that i "feel" the need for the party heal in 4man areas, effective 4/5regen is nice ofc, but rarely does damage get spread around to the point i need anything past seed.......normally i only run one heal (woh) and the rest prots, clean up and eman... Woh to power heal, dismiss as an emergency bar push n clean and ofc the rest is obvious... more usage will be needed, but finding guildies on at my times who wanna do 4man areas :P thats more an issue than the bar!

In 4 man areas damage is way ewasier to see coming than in 8 or 12... not that 8 is hard for someone who has had a fair amount of practice over the last 6 yrs :P

Woh/Dismiss/Guardian/Shield of Absorbtion/Seed of Life/Prot Spirit/Hex removal/Selfless Spirit/+res scrolls in inv.

MasterSasori · Jan 12, 2011, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Woh/Dismiss/Guardian/Shield of Absorbtion/Seed of Life/Prot Spirit/Hex removal/Selfless Spirit/+res scrolls in inv.

The heal from dismiss is not impressive, not nearly as good as PS in terms of Red Bars Up and the fact it doesn't require an enchantment (2 seconds is hardly a problem unless you do 20% extend enchant and even then it's 3 seconds).

For everything Dismiss does, there is something better. Condition removal is really useless and stuff like blind should be dealt with using a hero necro FF or your Draw Conditions.

I would also consider running Aegis over Guardian or Hex removal.

maxxfury · Jan 12, 2011, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Note: thats for 4 man areas only with one monk ^ so team skill compression is nice and aegis is a waste ^ Plus if i really need more than woh for the most part for healing something is goin very wrong lol

and i doubt anyone i usually play with will take the hex/cond removal...If its needed anyway, for cleaning blind or emp from a phys or backfire from a caster or my self when i cant be bothered to wait it out.. admittedly dismiss has been swapped for draw before ^

Spazzer · Jan 12, 2011, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

The heal from dismiss is not impressive, not nearly as good as PS in terms of Red Bars Up and the fact it doesn't require an enchantment (2 seconds is hardly a problem unless you do 20% extend enchant and even then it's 3 seconds).

Both Dismiss Condition and Patient Spirit are skills that have two possible outcomes when you successfully cast them on someone.

Dismiss Condition:
1) Dismiss Condition removes a condition.
2) Dismiss Condition heals and removes a condition.

Patient Spirit:
1) Patient Spirit heals.
2) Patient Spirit doesn't heal.

Dismiss Condition is in protection prayers. Patient Spirit is in healing prayers. To raise Dismiss Condition's healing, you are investing in a line that helps the UA monk. To raise Patient Spirit's healing, you are investing in a line that doesn't help the UA monk.

When you make your build, you need to remember that you are attempting to fill a void, not create one. You already have a healing monk on your team. What role do you want to take?

[edit]

On a related note, I ran across something in game that concerned me.

The build in question:

So I now see that you are probably not the only person in Guild Wars that thinks that "Your monk spells" translates to "Your Healing Prayers skills".

The problem with this is that UA does in fact buff the prot build (I like graphs):

Iron Monkey · Jan 18, 2011, 04:19 PM // 16:19

I hate people telling monks what they should use, when they have no idea what monks do themselves ,and only see them as red bar pushers. I can't be arsed to join a pug if I tell them I'm going full-prot to cover the other healer, and then insists on me going HB or UA anyway. Nothing against UA, but most pugs see them as insta-rez bots, and then go and get themselves killed expecting to come right back up.

reaper with no name · Jan 19, 2011, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

Both Dismiss Condition and Patient Spirit are skills that have two possible outcomes when you successfully cast them on someone.

Dismiss Condition:
1) Dismiss Condition removes a condition.
2) Dismiss Condition heals and removes a condition.

Patient Spirit:
1) Patient Spirit heals.
2) Patient Spirit doesn't heal.

Dismiss Condition is in protection prayers. Patient Spirit is in healing prayers. To raise Dismiss Condition's healing, you are investing in a line that helps the UA monk. To raise Patient Spirit's healing, you are investing in a line that doesn't help the UA monk.

When you make your build, you need to remember that you are attempting to fill a void, not create one. You already have a healing monk on your team. What role do you want to take?

[edit]

On a related note, I ran across something in game that concerned me.

The build in question:

So I now see that you are probably not the only person in Guild Wars that thinks that "Your monk spells" translates to "Your Healing Prayers skills".

The problem with this is that UA does in fact buff the prot build (I like graphs):

This whole thing confuses me.

If you're filling a void by bringing prot, then how is UA helping you do that? It will certainly increase the secondary healing powers of your prot skills, but it won't increase the actual protting power, which is the void such a build would be trying to fill in the first place. So why would you burn your elite on UA?